So, first and foremost, I apologize if at any point during the round I said anything that may have contributed to you three feeling like fun dispensers. Let it be known that was never my intention, but hey, when it's written medium the mood doesn't come across well, so it's perfectly possible stuff I have said came across wrong. So yeah, I really apologize if that ever happened.
Now, let's see...hm, I hadn't expected to leave this in public here, but after reading what you all three said, I figured it may be good. First, to leave that apology, because given I offered some criticism and tried to be helpful it may have contributed to the stuff said there. Still, it makes me think of a couple things that I really don't think can be chalked up to just a difference in opinion. I really do think SCP is a fun game, and even though, well, I have said things, I'll keep the series itself as dear to me. So I'll try my best to be as objective as possible and avoid personal opinions!
...for the most part, since there's a single one I think counts as personal opinion, but I really feel needed to be said since, well, the focus of SCP is very narrative. I think I'll get that one out of the way first and foremost.
The plot of the round was...I think it was good! Like, honestly I did feel invested into it. That said, I admit that for 1/3 of the game I didn't feel that at all -- in fact, it was kind of hard to care about the story? That was during the early part of the game. To be exact, it was Todd and Agent Timmy Turner.
I'm not going to say I'm terribly qualified to say such things, because honestly I think I'm not a terribly good writer. I think I know the basics and the theory stuff, but putting them into practice is hard, so what do I know. Still, when it's about stories, I think it...is hard to get invested in a story when it doesn't take its own important plot beats seriously. The introduction of the main antagonistic force, and the point where the mission the characters were sent to is revealed to have been a failure due to their own actions, are the perfect chances to deliver some really good punches, and establish the tone of everything, the cornerstone of the round's narrative. However it feels like...the humor that got inserted there pretty much diminished any strength those vital plot points had, which in turn, diminished the effectivity of the narrative.
Honestly I don't really have anything against SCP's humor. I do find a lot of stuff funny, but hey, everything has its time and place. What happened with the moose and the raccoon that led to finding Tages' notes about those who weren't in the TDM was pretty fine! I think that was the right time for that because it was all about delivering a plot point that, in the context of the round itself, was secondary -- Tages wasn't the focus of the round itself, after all. The curse was, at least from what I can see and understand. And that's why, when establishing how much of a threat the curse is, making a guy disguised as an anime character is not really the best move. When establishing how much of a threat the ghosts can be by killing the agent because they found out about it, giving the agent a joke name is really distracting.
See what I mean? I admit by the end of Week 2 I was really unsure what kind of tone the round was supposed to have. There was an attempt to establish an atmosphere, but oh boy did the way the most important plot beats were delivered undermine that. I was pretty confused, unsure what to even think, and frankly, kind of foolish because of my own expectations. 'Engaged' was by far not in my mind.
However, starting from Week 3 I think it started to work! Like, the plot was allowed the shine properly. I believe SCP can have a good narrative, there are rounds that prove it. Even Round 2 had some great stuff, despite some flaws in how it was delivered. That's what started happening from Week 3 and onwards! Which I really have to give kudos for, because I think you did well with that. I'll have to cut this short because, well...this post seems to be exclusively for criticism, so I guess I should limit that in this message. I'll leave stuff about that in the love meme, then!
So, now that I said that, there's one problem I think encapsulates everything that may be an issue? I have been thinking about it a bit, and in a way I think this is how it can be summarized:
There's a lot of misjudgment on how things can be taken by the players. Like, I have no idea what exactly may have been brought to you in private, but...I can take a guess, given several times during the round I noticed a few things that really could be taken the wrong way, or taken badly. I'll try to give three examples among the many options, because I admit...there are many. Still, these three may illustrate things the best:
The first one is the by-now maybe infamous booze incident -- and right away I say there's nothing to blame Jeva for, I believe Jeva did nothing wrong. Honestly I think the concept of Dazai being able to breach through the curse of the mansion and being an useless drunk instead of taking advantage to do something useful is pretty funny. I love the thought of that! And of course, Jeva deserves credit for coming up with such a thing. But it may...have been for the better to aviod it. That one was causing kind of a big plot hole, and opened the door to just so many attempts to break through the curse with their powers no matter what. Believe me, had that not cut short, the incoming weeks would have been so filled with requests and ways to break through that, and that's because Dazai wasn't the only character that could feasibly do it. I can think of...like eight who could, one way or another, try to do that too, and from what I recall, it was going to be batted away with the miasma fighting against the powers.
The problem? There'd have been a lot of issue with that. I think that would have led to a lot of arguments about why their characters doing that was different to what Dazai did and why it should work. It'd have brought a whole lot of work for you all, and if everything was denied, I'm pretty sure there'd have been a lot of rancor towards SCP. The kind of 'oh. they let dazai do that and then closed the window to allow it. they did that after dazai did it. why.'. Thankfully, I think that was avoided. Your prompt action stopped what may have amounted to a lot of bad blood, but yeah, I admit I'm really surprised that issue slipped by on the first place.
The second one I can think is the whole fire thing. Now, I'm not going to say I know all the details because boy I don't. All I have is what was explained to me privately by a mod, as well as what was said to me in the ghost chat by other players. It's very likely I'm missing some vital information but...I admit once I got the explanation, I was so full of concern about the whole thing.
I'm...also pretty surprised that one slipped by too. Think of it like this: there's players making plans, and the objective is to destroy whatever is in the core. They get a lot of things that point out fire is the thing to do. During an event, a mere...three days or so before the plans are going to be carried out, there's a heapload of proof that fire is the right thing to do. It's being reinforced by the mod posts, yup. Everything that isn't fire is not working well, also proven by mod posts. Therefore, fire is what should be done, and plans are made with that as the cornerstone.
So, how would things be interpreted if, after the game built so many times, and so intensely, and so emphatically that fire is what should be used, when using fire the result is 'Oh, the fire actively made things much worse!'.
I really, really, really think that'd have been a major, almost irreversible mistake. Like...honestly I really think that would have been interpreted as outright unfair. I found out about the role of fire in that like...two hours before the eggsac was destroyed? And wow did I spend those two hours fretting about that. Hell, I got so concerned I wasted no time in saying it. When I saw something else that wasn't fire destroyed the eggsac, I was so incredibly relieved! I felt disaster had been averted.
I repeat once again maybe I'm misinterpreting things, but from the explanation I was given on endgame day, that was all what crossed my mind. I thought we as players had been supposed to deduce something was wrong with fire -- you know, find the inconsistencies and realize they were being led into a trap. Thought that was a clever thing! -- but that day I found out I was wrong about that, it really was supposed to be that the players should use fire, and that'd make things worse. Personally I had a theory the core was a trap, and even tried to find out if I was right, because I admit I had similar concerns, but honestly I decided not to really pursue it because I thought 'well, even if it's a trap, I'm sure it won't be a loss. The mods will handle it well'. That one in particular wasn't really a big deal, honestly, but about that, I think the way you gals did things about getting to the core and popping the curse open being the way to return to the real world was a great move. Seriously, that single move just removed any concerns about the core, yup!
The last example I can think is, well...ironically, it's been reinforced in this post. I'm...not very sure how much of a good decision it is to say things such as 'we're going to run this game in the way WE see fit'. Like, frankly I can sympathize with such thoughts. I absolutely can! And I agree. Your game, your ways. The thing is...should that sort of thing be said? What kind of tone does that give this? I know that's not your intention, I believe it is't, but it gives kind of a confrontational tone to so many things. The kind of tone that says 'if you don't like it then get out'.
And needless to say, that's just so ripe for any kind of misintepretations.
The other mod post, the one from...two weeks or so ago, it had a line very similar to that one too. Honestly, the SCP mod team pride themselves on how approachable they are, and I do think this is one of the most approachable teams I have known. I wouldn't be leaving this post if I believed it would be ignored. But wow does such things give the complete opposite impression. I think, if I didn't already know you three are really open and welcoming, I may have interpreted it as 'welp. they're not going to listen to a thing, it's useless to say anything'. Which of course leads to bad blood, which...well, you know it wouldn't end well.
See what I mean? The point I'm trying to make is that the mod team's huge flaw is that there's a lack of forethought about how things can be interpreted and taken by the players. I know it may be a bit, uh...presumptuous? Of me to say such things, since I have modded only two games? But personally I have made some mistakes when it's about how things are taken. I have taken some terribly, huge bad decisions in the games I modded. I saw those mistakes, and maybe I have gotten a liiiittle too obsessed about such things. I just can't stop thinking about that. So when I see others making errors of the same caliber I did...I just can't help myself and stay quiet. I really can't, I just can't because I don't want others to make the mistakes I did. I'm sorry, I'm really sorry if anything I said is not okay, I just get so filled with worry I don't know what else to do other than speaking up.
That's all I really wanted to say for the feedback post. Now that I read your three posts, I really have to once again apologize if I ever treated you three as fun dispensers, that was never my intention.
All in all, I think that's all I had to say.
I once again will say I enjoyed playing in the round, and also I love you three dearly, but yeah. I care way too much, I guess. So much I just...can't keep this all to myself. I'm really sorry, it's not my intention to be inconvenient. I just hope it can be useful in some way.
no subject
So, first and foremost, I apologize if at any point during the round I said anything that may have contributed to you three feeling like fun dispensers. Let it be known that was never my intention, but hey, when it's written medium the mood doesn't come across well, so it's perfectly possible stuff I have said came across wrong. So yeah, I really apologize if that ever happened.
Now, let's see...hm, I hadn't expected to leave this in public here, but after reading what you all three said, I figured it may be good. First, to leave that apology, because given I offered some criticism and tried to be helpful it may have contributed to the stuff said there. Still, it makes me think of a couple things that I really don't think can be chalked up to just a difference in opinion. I really do think SCP is a fun game, and even though, well, I have said things, I'll keep the series itself as dear to me. So I'll try my best to be as objective as possible and avoid personal opinions!
...for the most part, since there's a single one I think counts as personal opinion, but I really feel needed to be said since, well, the focus of SCP is very narrative. I think I'll get that one out of the way first and foremost.
The plot of the round was...I think it was good! Like, honestly I did feel invested into it. That said, I admit that for 1/3 of the game I didn't feel that at all -- in fact, it was kind of hard to care about the story? That was during the early part of the game. To be exact, it was Todd and Agent Timmy Turner.
I'm not going to say I'm terribly qualified to say such things, because honestly I think I'm not a terribly good writer. I think I know the basics and the theory stuff, but putting them into practice is hard, so what do I know. Still, when it's about stories, I think it...is hard to get invested in a story when it doesn't take its own important plot beats seriously. The introduction of the main antagonistic force, and the point where the mission the characters were sent to is revealed to have been a failure due to their own actions, are the perfect chances to deliver some really good punches, and establish the tone of everything, the cornerstone of the round's narrative. However it feels like...the humor that got inserted there pretty much diminished any strength those vital plot points had, which in turn, diminished the effectivity of the narrative.
Honestly I don't really have anything against SCP's humor. I do find a lot of stuff funny, but hey, everything has its time and place. What happened with the moose and the raccoon that led to finding Tages' notes about those who weren't in the TDM was pretty fine! I think that was the right time for that because it was all about delivering a plot point that, in the context of the round itself, was secondary -- Tages wasn't the focus of the round itself, after all. The curse was, at least from what I can see and understand. And that's why, when establishing how much of a threat the curse is, making a guy disguised as an anime character is not really the best move. When establishing how much of a threat the ghosts can be by killing the agent because they found out about it, giving the agent a joke name is really distracting.
See what I mean? I admit by the end of Week 2 I was really unsure what kind of tone the round was supposed to have. There was an attempt to establish an atmosphere, but oh boy did the way the most important plot beats were delivered undermine that. I was pretty confused, unsure what to even think, and frankly, kind of foolish because of my own expectations. 'Engaged' was by far not in my mind.
However, starting from Week 3 I think it started to work! Like, the plot was allowed the shine properly. I believe SCP can have a good narrative, there are rounds that prove it. Even Round 2 had some great stuff, despite some flaws in how it was delivered. That's what started happening from Week 3 and onwards! Which I really have to give kudos for, because I think you did well with that. I'll have to cut this short because, well...this post seems to be exclusively for criticism, so I guess I should limit that in this message. I'll leave stuff about that in the love meme, then!
So, now that I said that, there's one problem I think encapsulates everything that may be an issue? I have been thinking about it a bit, and in a way I think this is how it can be summarized:
There's a lot of misjudgment on how things can be taken by the players. Like, I have no idea what exactly may have been brought to you in private, but...I can take a guess, given several times during the round I noticed a few things that really could be taken the wrong way, or taken badly. I'll try to give three examples among the many options, because I admit...there are many. Still, these three may illustrate things the best:
The first one is the by-now maybe infamous booze incident -- and right away I say there's nothing to blame Jeva for, I believe Jeva did nothing wrong. Honestly I think the concept of Dazai being able to breach through the curse of the mansion and being an useless drunk instead of taking advantage to do something useful is pretty funny. I love the thought of that! And of course, Jeva deserves credit for coming up with such a thing. But it may...have been for the better to aviod it. That one was causing kind of a big plot hole, and opened the door to just so many attempts to break through the curse with their powers no matter what. Believe me, had that not cut short, the incoming weeks would have been so filled with requests and ways to break through that, and that's because Dazai wasn't the only character that could feasibly do it. I can think of...like eight who could, one way or another, try to do that too, and from what I recall, it was going to be batted away with the miasma fighting against the powers.
The problem? There'd have been a lot of issue with that. I think that would have led to a lot of arguments about why their characters doing that was different to what Dazai did and why it should work. It'd have brought a whole lot of work for you all, and if everything was denied, I'm pretty sure there'd have been a lot of rancor towards SCP. The kind of 'oh. they let dazai do that and then closed the window to allow it. they did that after dazai did it. why.'. Thankfully, I think that was avoided. Your prompt action stopped what may have amounted to a lot of bad blood, but yeah, I admit I'm really surprised that issue slipped by on the first place.
The second one I can think is the whole fire thing. Now, I'm not going to say I know all the details because boy I don't. All I have is what was explained to me privately by a mod, as well as what was said to me in the ghost chat by other players. It's very likely I'm missing some vital information but...I admit once I got the explanation, I was so full of concern about the whole thing.
I'm...also pretty surprised that one slipped by too. Think of it like this: there's players making plans, and the objective is to destroy whatever is in the core. They get a lot of things that point out fire is the thing to do. During an event, a mere...three days or so before the plans are going to be carried out, there's a heapload of proof that fire is the right thing to do. It's being reinforced by the mod posts, yup. Everything that isn't fire is not working well, also proven by mod posts. Therefore, fire is what should be done, and plans are made with that as the cornerstone.
So, how would things be interpreted if, after the game built so many times, and so intensely, and so emphatically that fire is what should be used, when using fire the result is 'Oh, the fire actively made things much worse!'.
I really, really, really think that'd have been a major, almost irreversible mistake. Like...honestly I really think that would have been interpreted as outright unfair. I found out about the role of fire in that like...two hours before the eggsac was destroyed? And wow did I spend those two hours fretting about that. Hell, I got so concerned I wasted no time in saying it. When I saw something else that wasn't fire destroyed the eggsac, I was so incredibly relieved! I felt disaster had been averted.
I repeat once again maybe I'm misinterpreting things, but from the explanation I was given on endgame day, that was all what crossed my mind. I thought we as players had been supposed to deduce something was wrong with fire -- you know, find the inconsistencies and realize they were being led into a trap. Thought that was a clever thing! -- but that day I found out I was wrong about that, it really was supposed to be that the players should use fire, and that'd make things worse. Personally I had a theory the core was a trap, and even tried to find out if I was right, because I admit I had similar concerns, but honestly I decided not to really pursue it because I thought 'well, even if it's a trap, I'm sure it won't be a loss. The mods will handle it well'. That one in particular wasn't really a big deal, honestly, but about that, I think the way you gals did things about getting to the core and popping the curse open being the way to return to the real world was a great move. Seriously, that single move just removed any concerns about the core, yup!
The last example I can think is, well...ironically, it's been reinforced in this post. I'm...not very sure how much of a good decision it is to say things such as 'we're going to run this game in the way WE see fit'. Like, frankly I can sympathize with such thoughts. I absolutely can! And I agree. Your game, your ways. The thing is...should that sort of thing be said? What kind of tone does that give this? I know that's not your intention, I believe it is't, but it gives kind of a confrontational tone to so many things. The kind of tone that says 'if you don't like it then get out'.
And needless to say, that's just so ripe for any kind of misintepretations.
The other mod post, the one from...two weeks or so ago, it had a line very similar to that one too. Honestly, the SCP mod team pride themselves on how approachable they are, and I do think this is one of the most approachable teams I have known. I wouldn't be leaving this post if I believed it would be ignored. But wow does such things give the complete opposite impression. I think, if I didn't already know you three are really open and welcoming, I may have interpreted it as 'welp. they're not going to listen to a thing, it's useless to say anything'. Which of course leads to bad blood, which...well, you know it wouldn't end well.
See what I mean? The point I'm trying to make is that the mod team's huge flaw is that there's a lack of forethought about how things can be interpreted and taken by the players. I know it may be a bit, uh...presumptuous? Of me to say such things, since I have modded only two games? But personally I have made some mistakes when it's about how things are taken. I have taken some terribly, huge bad decisions in the games I modded. I saw those mistakes, and maybe I have gotten a liiiittle too obsessed about such things. I just can't stop thinking about that. So when I see others making errors of the same caliber I did...I just can't help myself and stay quiet. I really can't, I just can't because I don't want others to make the mistakes I did. I'm sorry, I'm really sorry if anything I said is not okay, I just get so filled with worry I don't know what else to do other than speaking up.
That's all I really wanted to say for the feedback post. Now that I read your three posts, I really have to once again apologize if I ever treated you three as fun dispensers, that was never my intention.
All in all, I think that's all I had to say.
I once again will say I enjoyed playing in the round, and also I love you three dearly, but yeah. I care way too much, I guess. So much I just...can't keep this all to myself. I'm really sorry, it's not my intention to be inconvenient. I just hope it can be useful in some way.
Thanks for everything.