foundationmods (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
foundationmods) wrote2019-05-12 03:39 pm
foundationmods) wrote2019-05-12 03:39 pm
ROUND 3 HMD
How was the round? How did we mods do this time around? If you have any comments for the mods, feel free to leave them here! We want to continue to improve and do better in future rounds, so your input is important!
If you would like to contact us privately, you can do that as well by messaging either Eski (Eski#2807) or Maple (Mandy#0822) on Discord. If you want to talk to both of us, we can set up a group DM.
If you would like to contact us privately, you can do that as well by messaging either Eski (Eski#2807) or Maple (Mandy#0822) on Discord. If you want to talk to both of us, we can set up a group DM.
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Like I've said in the love meme, I've had a lot of fun this round - I really liked the plot setup, how the trials went, the Wednesday events were probably some of my favorite things this round, and how planning out the murders with the murder doc were a lot, and honestly? I don't have any major issues with this round overall.
There were only minor gripes that I had, really - primarily re: bonus AC the final week and that the bracelets that were given during bonus AC on week 3 were never properly resolved, but I understand that Maple, who is the one that handles AC was very busy with other more pertinent modding things (and perhaps things outside of that) so again, this is very minor and not really a big issue - just something to be aware of regarding bonus AC for future rounds.
And I think that's it on my part! The round was pretty solid all around and I didn't have any major qualms so I would like to thank you both once again for making this round a rather fantastic experience, and here's to R4!
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1.) Cases: In general I felt like we hit the [ Okay we can figure the timeline but the WHO is ?] in pretty much every case. This was in general a consistent issue and I think it traces back to case creation. I really think some organization in the doc would help so players know what's expected of them-- there are varying level of experiences across the board so it definitely helps to know what level of detail is expected here.
This is also a YMMV because all mods handle it differently, but I think it would help if mods weighed in more during case creation rather than doing one review at the end. Some mod teams are hands on and some are content to let players handle it up until the end for checking (and I for one am of the mindset support the players it is THEIR case). That being said, it's pretty easy to tell from midpoint and onward where players might need help in getting what they want across/making sure the logic flows.
Speaking of doc details at the end-- I was more than happy to weigh in on the IC dialogue for the story retelling but I had no idea this was a thing and I was juggling a lot at the time-- just some heads up that this would be coming would have been great. I know it was optional, but on the other hand it was a fun experience, I just wasn't prepared for it.
2.) Time Communication: Bouncing off the end of the last comment. I think this more pertains to final trial, but I think it happened in a few other places-- if you're running late (and these things happen we're all people) just a simple heads up: hey I am running late and trial will go up at 1pm would have been appreciated rather than ( I am working on it and it will be up ASAP). The former makes me have to hang around checking for when it'll go up, when the latter gives me time to get other things done. And hey if you overshoot and it's ready earlier, that extra time lets you go over it, make sure it's polished and all of that.
Any late/delay announcement should also be done in the announcements channel/plurk so they don't get lost in chat. I didn't find this much an issue in the game as I was fearing but a few times a general question was asked in regards to times/events and the answer was " I think mod said this but I'm not sure", and the answer was lost in the discord somewhere. As someone who is not often on a computer I can use discord on (sans weekends) it's really easy to lose things and reading hundred of messages in chat just isn't feasible.
3.) Graveyard Mechanics: For the most part I really liked them! One crit however is that while it made sense lorewise for demons to know what's going on/be more invested in the plot, having victims/servant have less investment felt not great. Killers get a lot of time to shine during trial just by nature of the system, and it was a huge bummer that victims also felt less included in post-death mechanics. Again, this makes perfect sense lore/narrative wise, but OOC wise I think it was unfair. Ideally I would hope that both demons/servants would have the potential to be just as invested post death. While they were both free to tag as they wished, characters had more incentive to interact with demons because they knew what was going on/had a personal connection to Nirrti, and for servants they felt isolated being literally out of the loop.
4.) End game:
This is GY specific, but I think there were some misunderstandings that happened here for what was expected of us for final trial. I remember there was a question in chat on what it would involve for deadfolk and the answer was that it was mostly cheering (sorry I don't have these logs and the channel is gone), and that it was low-pressure
.
While the GY stuff was indeed optional, having demons participate in Nirrti's stead was really cool but should have involved some degree of heads up so we could play around who was taking what case and keeping our schedules free. I had made some plans midday around this expectation and it turned out we could be/were encouraged to do more and it made a part of final trial feel really hectic for me.
To end this, I really loved everything that was post final trial! I loved the IC vote and I loved the ridiculous shounen-fighting and as someone who wasn't as invested in general SCP meta this really pulled me into it all and made me want to get engaged. It was a lot of fun! I know this was all very dynamic and fluid, but I think it turned out great!
Thanks for the game and I'm really looking forward to R4!
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I have a couple of suggestions non-story/npc related. Can you guys consider raising the character cap and maybe can we get a channel in discord for trial/events only please?
I do understand that the cap was lowered thanks to crit, but I think maybe a middle ground could work (something around 24?) There was circumstances in the last round that made it as fast, just like I get there were circumstances this round to make it feel small and I get that, but it really felt like at times there were only around five to ten people active during the important moments, and it made it frustrating for me as a player (And I know this isn't really anyone's fault because things came up and people were busy but it was felt keenly by me because of the lower number)
And the second suggestion is because we are all really funny and bright people who can get carried away with our jokes, that it was hard to find pertinent information in the gen chat or even the mod questions. I would come back to chat to a wall of text of shit posting and it made it hard to see where we were, who needed help, catching someone up to what they missed, etc⦠I also felt like it was hard for you guys to answer questions or see who was actually being serious or not when jokes got carried away in the mod questions. So something to chew over and it might help with organization?
And continuing this line of thoughtβ¦ this is crit for everyone in game. I know people are excited and everyone is really hilarious and interesting and I really adore all of us, but we need to maybe scale back on our jokes and shitposting on the main channels. Especially in the mod questions. Things were overlooked or it was hard to figure out what the mods were responding to at times. A few jokes here and there are okay, but if we start getting carried away during investigation, trial, or events...then we should try to move it to shitposts. I will be working on getting better at this myself because I know I need to and I know Iβm super guilty of this and encouraging peopleβs jokes/continuing them.
Thank you for everything and I love you guys.
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Throughout the game, the puzzles were really fun to read even after the fact and I enjoyed the amount of thought you guys put in them to keep them interesting. It felt like they were all relevant to figuring things out and slowly putting together the mystery of the game. It was nice to see you guys keep graveyard relevant in the final trial too! The only crit I can think to give is maybe players should have been given a warning sooner that they need to be around for the final trial and told beforehand what would be expected of them. I don't know if I missed it, and if I did please disregard this! But I remember catching the ping on mobile and being confused.
All in all, I had fun and I don't think I have any other feedback to give! o7 Keep up the good work, guys!
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If I have to address some concerns I had would be also with case management, just for future's sake, because I know we're bound to get new people and murdergame-like cases not like this game's are on the horizon. Particularly, as Limon mentioned, there is either 1) case docs organized so that it helps people know of expectations and details aren't lacking, or 2) there's more active checking to make sure things make sense.
Most importantly, if there are delays please communicate them in the announcements because they can be missed otherwise.
In addition to that, I am going to +1 Pan's statement in regards to the cap in general, esp since we have more people interested in r4 and it is just something to consider as I doubt that things would get as insane as they did in r2. R3 has proven that, so if something like the normal 30 people count could be restored that'd be great.
I realize most of my crit is just +1ing what other people have said but hope they are valid all the same. That being said, I can't wait to see how r4 goes!
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There were just a few moments where I felt communication could have used some improvement, and there was a moment during week 3's investigation where I was a little confused. Like here - Kurama hadn't been down to see their feet, so he shouldn't have known whose prints belonged to which person, at all. And that was pretty damning evidence that felt a bit... handed out? Though, I could have missed something. It was just something that stuck out and I thought it should be brought up as a JIC.
And, without going into detail, there was a time after that week's trial where I was left feeling kinda brushed aside as a player. I felt that the situation could have been handled with more consideration for all involved, especially given I had preemptively brought things up to the mods and had been under the impression that something was okay, only for it to suddenly not be okay.
(I was under a lot of strain and pressure at that point in my life, so I admittedly forced myself into this corner of "okay, sure, I get it". I am not angry with anyone, at all. It maybe hurt my feelings, more than anything. And I had to wait until my situation straightened out some before I could approach this.)
Admittedly, it's made playing this version of Akira totally uncomfortable at times, since I was left in a situation where dropping threads was all I could manage to do, just to avoid having my character saying a thing. And I was only able to pick him back up after the period of people asking him questions regarding his case passed.
So, I just think some reflecting and chatting about that situation could be good, in the event something like that ever comes up again. I think you guys are great mods - I wouldn't have felt comfortable bringing this up, if I thought you guys don't take even things like this seriously.
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We did pull back a bit after week 3, but that was because we knew your life was really hectic then and didn't want to add more stress to it. It was less that we were 'brushing you aside' and more that we wanted to give you space to handle everything you were going through. We figured you would come to us when things were better, if that makes sense? So if our silence on the matter made you uncomfortable, we apologize for that.
If you want to discuss this further, then we can chat in private on discord if you like. Just let us know if that's what you want, and we can set that up.
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Feedback-wise, I'll be piggybacking off some issues brought up by other players and adding my own perspective as I do feel that having these issues addressed (some of them are recurring) would definitely help with improving the game for future rounds!
1. This has been a fairly consistent if low-key issue I've noticed throughout the rounds, in that OOC communication of, for example, announcements and other important mod-to-player things can get lost in the shuffle and busy roll from week-to-week. One example I can bring up from this round is that the investigation time change was put up to a poll that was linked in I think the first week's mingle, but there was no OOC announcement at all. It was my bad for missing the link, but it would have helped a lot to have some kind of OOC heads-up in the announcement channel on discord and on Plurk, as then I would have had a chance to set myself a reminder. I tend to be a very forgetful person and it helps me manage these things a lot when I'm given explicit forewarning about it.
Also, I'd like to encourage keeping up with announcements on Plurk for events and important plot threads (so, for example, the Watanuki visions, and in-between round stuff like the Moriarty exploration), since a number of players may not have consistent access to discord during the day even if they have time to tag. I had no idea the Moriarty stuff was going on at all until it was well underway. I'd also like to encourage players who put up meetings and mingles to also plurk them, since I've noticed a trend to keep these only to discord and it would probably help participation to spread the notice across discord as well as Plurk.
Just in general more communication in Plurk as well as more consistent announcements would be super appreciated.
2. Just a quick +1 to the servant thing, in that I feel like servants could have been better-integrated into the game. We did have stuff to do in the graveyard so it wasn't too big a deal on my end, but they did feel kind of like a one-off gimmick to get a couple of threads out of and that may have accounted for the lack of servant participation from week-to-week. I'm not sure if this was intended or not.
I did like the brief interlude where the dogs got used for the puzzle of the week? I feel like having the servants participate in stuff like that consistently would have been a fun usage of them. Just something to keep in mind for the future in case similar mechanics ever come up again.
3. The communication about graveyard endgame -- or lack thereof -- admittedly took me by surprise. We were explicitly told that graveyard characters wouldn't be needed until the end of the final trial and even then they would only be cheerleading. However, right before the start of trial, we were then told that demons and some servants could participate in fighting the survivor pool over cases and slinging Red Truths. This was a lot to spring on everybody at the last minute, and while I assume it was because the participation in the trial itself was optional, I liked the setup and I'm sure many of us would have liked to be able to plan for being there if we could. As it is, there was a lot of scrambling to find people who could be there for the trial, which I feel could have been better handled if we'd had more communication about what was expected of us in advance.
This was something that came up in R2 as well, where the lightning execution round blindsided many people who weren't made aware of how intensive it would be. I'm hoping that these communication issues can be worked on going forward so that everyone can have a smoother and more enjoyable endgame for future rounds.
4. I also wanted to add my support for raising the character cap back up. Previous rounds were a lot faster thanks mostly to the lack of activity drops and sweeps, which we had a lot more of this round -- so I do feel that either raising the cap back up to where we had it before or at least having some more numbers in case people do need to drop or step away would be a good idea going forward. It was a good round, but I felt a little more constrained in terms of being able to establish wider CR and the smaller cast was definitely felt during events and trials as well.
5. In terms of chat organization and having things lost in the chat during for example trials or events -- I do feel like we had some issues with organization this round that made it hard to catherd with trials and sometimes had people talking over each other or overwriting each other during puzzles, for example. Maybe having a dedicated trials/events channel going forward would be a good idea? It would help a lot with separating out idle chatter from actually trying to organize groups, discussions and speculation, and for this round's example figuring out how to stack Blue Truths.
6. One more thing I wanted to bring up since I know that this was a new mechanic for this round that I think we all did enjoy and it was brought up that similar mechanics could be implemented for either future rounds or separate games. The Blue Truth was a lot of fun (and the Gold and Red Truths too of course!), but I feel like the mechanic still wasn't completely well-adapted to the larger number of people. When Nirrti started not taking smaller Blue Truths I get that it made sense from a story/IC perspective, but it meant that it was harder for everyone to get a chance to Blue Truth, and moreover it made it harder to Blue Truth organically during trials.
I think we did manage to hash out a system by the end, but truthfully, I had a lot more fun with the Blue Truth in mock when people were able to jump in and build off of each other and speculate together rather than having to adhere to a rigid 'ask some questions and then round table it until two or three people set down the pre-planned Blue Truths'. I think having a better balance of both uses of the system might be a good idea, and help with the flow as well as enjoyment of players when it comes to using the Blue Truth itself if you do plan to use the mechanic or a variant of it again in the future.
To wrap up, while these issues were definitely noticeable in the round, I still very much enjoyed the game overall and had a ton of fun. A lot of these are smaller tweaks or improvements to existing things that I feel would help and increase enjoyment for everyone, so I really hope the feedback helps! Thanks so much for all the work and love you've put into this game. It's my home game and I'm hoping to stick with it as long as I'm able. ♥
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First, the good: this round had some hiccups, but overall it was by and far our most successful round. We tried our best to give everyone at least one shot at doing something cool this round, and we feel like that was successful. We also liked how the Truths mechanic played into the round, and how it changed the nature of the trials. It would need some minor adjustments for further use we think, we're pretty much in agreement with Fyre's opinions on it. It was handy, but also easy for one person to run away with while others held back from jumping in. We have some ideas for how to fix that, but we'll hold off on it for now. Given how positive the reception to the Truths mechanic was, we probably will be bringing it back. At that time we will try the adjustments we have in mind.
We were also really happy with the player input we had this round, both during the round and after. Open communication is key to running and playing in a murdergame, and we're glad that you guys felt comfortable enough to come to us when you had problems. That gave us the chance to fix the problems, which we think helped the game become even better. And for that, we're really grateful.
Now, for the areas of improvement:
Case work: We have admittedly been largely hands-off during the case creation, mostly because we didn't want to railroad any of you into doing something you didn't want to do. But it seems like the general consensus is that you guys would like more mod input, so we'll try to balance that better with our desire to give you guys the freedom to do what you want with the trials.
Time communications: Yes, you're right on the fact that we need to be clearer on when investigation/trial times are effected by outside sources. Dreamwidth going down like clockwork every Saturday was a definite headache, and while we try to telegraph in main chat when trials will be extended for that, we'll also be sure to post it in announcements from now on. We'll try to keep updates on plurk as well. We also have a calendar that was linked with each mingle log, which had our pre-planned events (the weekly events, investigations, trials. Some things were not on that because Maple ran them and forgot to tell Eski to add them to the calendar, but that's on Maple and she's going to be better about telling Eski in the future), and we plan on keeping that calendar in round 4 as well. Also, our regular weekly events (wednesday events, investigations, trials) all take place at the same time each week, and those times are written in multiple places throughout the game's FAQ and information pages. We don't mind reminding people when asked, but it is definitely out there to find if neither of us are around to answer that question.
That said, after some discussion, we mods think that some of the crit about time communication is coming from things we hadn't personally planned on happening. Some of the things (the weekly event, the Watanuki visions, etc.) were planned on our end and we definitely should have announced those in a more visual way, and we will in the past. But other things were more us going along with something a player had decided to do, and in those cases it's kind of difficult to say "okay, this is happening at X time" because they're more spur of the moment! So while we will make an effort to better-announce the pre-planned events, some things will still end up happening spontaneously without an announcement until after the fact. And honestly, we don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. If we had everything pre-planned and announced and didn't leave room for spontaneous things (like the burning of the church), then it would get kind of boring! Half the fun is seeing what you guys come up with and changing our plans based on that, and we want to keep that in future rounds.
Graveyard stuff: admittedly, that was a quick patch on our part. Our original plan was to run things just like in the mock trial, where the dead revived as normal people and kept playing the game after each case. But the way Vanitas reacted in the mock round (specifically how he seemed, to us at least, completely uninvested in the game after his trial) made us realize that it probably wasn't a good idea to have characters come back as their usual selves. the servant/demon thing was us going "hmm...how can we make things a bit more interesting for characters removed from the game?" Likewise, we hadn't planned on having a deadland at all, but by the end of week 2 we were getting the sense that weeks and weeks of playing out demons/servants just wouldn't be that fun for everyone who died. So, we made the deadland and all the plot stuff for it the weekend of the second trial, and we went from there.
But because we rushed both of those components of the game, they weren't quite as polished as we try to be. Servants got the short end of the stick even though narratively what happened to them made sense. Demons contracted to Watanuki got a lot more freedom than the rest, probably unfairly so, when that was also a case of 'this would make sense according to the narrative'. Deadland was also a bit scattered because Maple was running the majority of that, and work hit hard starting week 4 (tl;dr 3 out of 10 employees got fired in her department, and everyone had to pick up extra shifts until new employees could be hired and trained, which meant normally-manageable work hours became crazy), which was why deadland ended up a bit scattered and more "we'll play it by ear in terms of timelines". We're really grateful that everyone was flexible on that, but we also understand that it got a bit frustrating at times. Thankfully a problem like that shouldn't happen again, but we'll also be more open and communicate those issues and pushed back deadlines if something does happen.
Endgame trouble: We think a lot of the problems here can be solved by just going "everyone in the game, plan on being at the entirety of endgame", so that's what we're going to go with for round 4. We're also considering changing the times of trials slightly (making them shorter, but also stating that everyone should plan to be there for the entirety of the trial each week) which might help with some of those problems too.
Player Cap: We're going to keep the cap low for round 4, since the main mechanic that round is going to be 'you can avoid trials by hitting key events during the week' and that should keep characters alive for longer. We will revisit this for round 5, though, and might possibly go back to a cap of 30.
That's it from us! Once again, we want to thank all of you for participating in this round, and we hope to see you all next time!